Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side?

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:23 pm

yosh why don't you just tell us what it was in that post that convinced you because i'm not about to go and read 9 pages of ppl accusing christians, again out of misunderstandings about the bible.

Post by **MarauderIIC** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:24 pm

But -- why aren't you recommending I go study the Karan (I believe that's what it's called) instead? I was just wondering what you know that makes your religion the right/best one over any others. Do you know anything about any others?

Enlighten me if you do know what makes yours the right one (seriously, I'd like to know your point of view). At the moment you're saying my ignorance of your religion is making me not choose it. So if I became unignorant of your religion, I would choose it.

But the exact same argument could go for any other religion! So the best path to take would be one I would wager you haven't: study every holy book of every religion and choose the best one for me out of those. How do you know Christianity is the best religion for you if you haven't studied any/most/all others? If you have, I commend you.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:59 pm

This argument has been aimed mostly at christians which is why i didn't mention the Qur'an. The reason i don't read a Qur'an is that I'm satisfied with what the bible teaches, however if i were arguing with a muslim it may do me some good to see where they are coming from. However you guys do not appear to be jewish or muslim, no on the contrary you guys appear have no basis of religion at all, if you want to read the Qur'an and then argue with me, fine , i'll listen to you more than what i do now if you do, because your ignorance would be less even if you read the Qur'an. But no you guys are saying you disagree with religion without any real understanding of the religion your disagreeing with. And nowhere have i said that my religion is best i'm afraid i do not have the gaul to make such a statement. And nowhere have i said that christianity is the best religion for you, i've only suggested you try to understand what your arguing about.

Post by **MarauderIIC** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:40 am

skywalker541 wrote:As for the others, I can't speak for them. Namely Gyro, who seems to be the only one actually insulting anything -- whether these are based or not, I can't say, as I haven't read much bible since I was like, six. Thanks for your straight answer on the Jesus/aliens thing by the way.

I'm not insulting anything. I'm criticizing. I'm criticizing the bible and the religion. If a religion can't stand up to some criticism, what good is it?

If a christian can't tell me why a 16-year old boy is more generous than their god, why agnostics/atheists are so bad, why god must punish non believers--wtf?

I don't think I have insulted anything. I've criticized. I never said OMFG I HATE U AND UR RELIGION U R ALL TEH GAYZ AND TEHR IS NO GAWD.

Edit by Mar: Gyro, what the FUCK (<-all capital letters) did you do this to my post for?! I had a nice post with textual evidence and you go and edit it to this GARBAGE?!

DJ Yoshi · Post by **DJ Yoshi** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:06 am

It wasn't any one post. A lot of the points Mort, Tenshu, and the like made were really good.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:47 am

MarauderIIC wrote:
skywalker541 wrote:As for the others, I can't speak for them. Namely Gyro, who seems to be the only one actually insulting anything -- whether these are based or not, I can't say, as I haven't read much bible since I was like, six. Thanks for your straight answer on the Jesus/aliens thing by the way.
I'm not insulting anything. I'm criticizing. I'm criticizing the bible and the religion. If a religion can't stand up to some criticism, what good is it?

If a christian can't tell me why a 16-year old boy is more generous than their god, why agnostics/atheists are so bad, why god must punish non believers--wtf?

I don't think I have insulted anything. I've criticized. I never said OMFG I HATE U AND UR RELIGION U R ALL TEH GAYZ AND TEHR IS NO GAWD.

Dude WTF? I didn't write that you can check my posts, you wrote that and then changed it. I remember reading it last night before i went to bed, that doesn't even make sense that that came from me.why would i thank myself, also its quite obvious that it was you who wrote that and not me because you were the one who asked the jesus/alien question and i'm the one who answered it. And a 16yr old is defenitely not more generous than god. Again gyro who doesn't even know anythingabout the bible mde that statement, not knowing what he was talking about at all, I'm really getting sick of this ignorance.

Post by **Falco Girgis** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:54 am

Whoah yeah, wtf? MarauderIIC said that. Errr... if that was my fault, my bad. It was kinda obvious though.

You saying I don't know anything about the bible just makes you look worse. I'm born into a christian family and used to attend church regularly up until a year ago. I'm not denying your knowledge at all.

So anyway, my not knowing the bible is the reason that you can't answer any of my questions? My not knowing the bible forgives those contradictions?

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 pm

gyro ask me all the questsions when you come over, and i'll be more than happy to answer them, and for the last time they are not contradictions if you did have alot of bible knowledge you would know that, i'll explain why there not also when you come over.But i don't feel like answering them all buy typing them all out rather tell you them in person.and I don't see how your blatant ignorance of the bible makes me look worse.Raised christian? I thought you said you were raised morman, either way it's still obvious you didn't pay attention in sunday school if you did go.If you ever have read the bible you must have understood very little of it.

Post by **JS Lemming** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:19 pm

Wow.... ignorance is plentiful these days isn't? I wish I could say that if you actually read the bible you guys wouldn't be so fallible, but some people just don't want to see clearly.

And BTW, the Bible says that God gives every human a chance at salvation. That means everybody. No matter what religion if any at all. In the end you are the one who decides to be saved or not. You decide to distance yourself from God. He doesn't punish people, they punish themselves.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:57 pm

JS Lemming wrote:Wow.... ignorance is plentiful these days isn't? I wish I could say that if you actually read the bible you guys wouldn't be so fallible, but some people just don't want to see clearly.

And BTW, the Bible says that God gives every human a chance at salvation. That means everybody. No matter what religion if any at all. In the end you are the one who decides to be saved or not. You decide to distance yourself from God. He doesn't punish people, they punish themselves.

exactly. WOW, I've only met few christians that really understand that god doesn't punish you. Even after you die it's not god that sentences you to hell, you do it yourself in life, and if you haven't excepted christ as your savior, then you face all the guilt of every sin you ever comitted when you are with god, that is hell, I believe that heaven and hell are really the same place but if you have been saved then you won't be haunted by your guilt of the sins that you comitted in life. Also btw, it wasn't the crucifixion that really killed christ (he had a quick death on the cross, usually if you were crucified you would live for many hours sometime even days) it was the guilt of every single sin ever comiited in the world that killed him, think about it.
Guilt really is the msot powerful emotion, is drives some people insane, some people kill themselves because of it, and others become really depressed, and others hold it in until it kills them very slowly, it has already been proven that emotional stress makes you unhealthy. Now imagine having to carry all that guilt of your sins into heaven with you and never being able to die (have peace from your guilt), heaven would not be a happy place for you at all. But that's why jesus died, he bore all that pain for us so if we choose to believe in him, we wouldn't have to go through that, we wouldn't feel guilty in the presence of god and heaven would truly be heaven for us. Do you realize that what jesus essentially did was gave us his "ticket" into heaven, knowing we could never make it on our own, because if we weren't going to be there with him than it just wouldn't be heaven to him, that's how much he loves us. Yet gyro you have the audacity to say you are more generuos than him, now maybe you understand why that irritates me quite a bit.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:06 pm

I also don't understand why you ppl get so offended when a christian tries to tell you about christ, and tries to get you saved. Its a jesture of love for you that we do that, we don't want to see you in pain when your wiht us in heaven, or your hell.

Post by **Falco Girgis** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:35 pm

JS Lemming wrote:Wow.... ignorance is plentiful these days isn't? I wish I could say that if you actually read the bible you guys wouldn't be so fallible, but some people just don't want to see clearly.

And BTW, the Bible says that God gives every human a chance at salvation. That means everybody. No matter what religion if any at all. In the end you are the one who decides to be saved or not. You decide to distance yourself from God. He doesn't punish people, they punish themselves.

So I'm cool then. God wouldn't punish an agnostic or atheist any more than he'd punish a hindu or muslim.

If there is a christian god, my beliefs are that he'd rock. He'd be understanding. I'm just not seeing the christian god being that great from the portrayal of the Bible. Sending somebody to hell for not being <insert religion here> or even punishing them is just stupid. S T U P I D. Petty, humanistic, heartless, that's what it is. A god is so much higher than that. It isn't gonna happen.

JSL, that's pushing it. I didn't call anybody ignorant. You know what I say?

JSL wrote:Wow.... ignorance is plentiful these days isn't?

Arrogance is quite abundant right about now.

Well... never mind. I don't want a flame war.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:39 pm

wow, gyro i see you didn't read my post. It explains pretty well that god does not punish you or any1 else. At least as far sending them to hell. In the old testament things were a little different but he still never sent any to hell.

Post by **Falco Girgis** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:15 pm

Okay serious question. Old Testament: What the hell? I have read some pretty bad stuff in there. Is that book like wrong or why is there a new and old?

Seriously, you hear Christians always using the New Testament. What is the view of the Old Testament?

I love that book. The disasters caused by god, the sons of Jacob selling one of their own into slavery, the floods killing every "dirty sinner," and god punishing people with different languages because they tried to build a tower to heaven. Can I call bullshit? or is that a foul...

DJ Yoshi · Post by **DJ Yoshi** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:17 pm

Aparrently you didn't read his fucking post either. He specifically said "IF there was a christian god I imagine he'd be pretty cool, not like the one the bible portrays".

My thoughts exactly.