Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

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Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby Falco Girgis on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:27 pm

Discussion topic for the "Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1" blog post:

http://elysianshadows.com/dev/project/blogs/underlying-technology/104-elysian-physics-sandbox-part-1
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby dandymcgee on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:21 pm

Falco Girgis wrote:Anyway, I'm excited as shit for this next update. All we need after we expose all this shit to the Toolkit is to properly handle Z ordering and implement layer-swapping (ladders, stairs, ropes, etc), and the "exploration/environment" portion of the engine is 100% go. Explore your levels in-game as you make them... It will be time to focus on gameplay.

As am I. The collision is looking fucking great and extremely functional. The Toolkit UI also seems to be just about on the Engine's level as far as usability and functionality are concerned. Having levels with proper collision and physics is a milestone toward interactive development of new areas and should help give the artists a real motivational boost.

Edit:
A few ideas
- It would be great if the regions that start scrolling in Map View and Sheet View would scale with the overall size of those panes. Having most of the default Sheet View cause scrolling makes it hard to select things.
- Scrolling seems to be based on how much the mouse is moved rather than where it is. If possible, scrolling should happen continuously and smoothly while the mouse is in the scroll region, and go faster the closer to the outer edge it is (think StarCraft).
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby Skomakar'n on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:30 am

I didn't realise you guys had a blog. I shall be following this. This post is precisely the kind of stuff that I like to read. I am also genuinely impressed by your masochistic tendencies to create these enumerations with messy arithmetics for everything.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby eatcomics on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:41 am

God damn. Even without dev videos you guys still make me want to sit down and get my ass to work. Sadly I'll be out of town all weekend. Fuck. Looks like I need to get something done tonight.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby Falco Girgis on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:55 am

dandymcgee wrote:A few ideas
- It would be great if the regions that start scrolling in Map View and Sheet View would scale with the overall size of those panes. Having most of the default Sheet View cause scrolling makes it hard to select things.
- Scrolling seems to be based on how much the mouse is moved rather than where it is. If possible, scrolling should happen continuously and smoothly while the mouse is in the scroll region, and go faster the closer to the outer edge it is (think StarCraft).
These are both good ideas.

1) Agreed. I think they're like a tile offset from each side, which is pretty damn large when you have a small SheetView.

2) That was the original plan. Then we found out that there was no event/hook to continually update a view on a frame-by-frame basis. The best we could do was use the "onMouseMove" event. But yeah, that is pretty annoying, I will admit. Now that I'm thinking about it, worst case the onMouseMove could kick off some kind of millisecond timer that scrolls the window periodically while the mouse is in a certain position. Not quite as pretty as I would like, but the functionality is more important.

Skomakar'n wrote:I didn't realise you guys had a blog. I shall be following this. This post is precisely the kind of stuff that I like to read. I am also genuinely impressed by your masochistic tendencies to create these enumerations with messy arithmetics for everything.
A lot of people don't know we have a blog, and I don't get why. We post on Facebook (and sometimes Youtube) every time we update, there's a pretty obvious link on the website, and there's this entire forum for blog discussion... I guess it will start to catch on when we announce it in the next AiGD.

As for my masochism, nothing would break my heart more than not running at 60fps on the Dreamcast.

edit: Renamed this forum and description to maybe help out. We need to stop calling them "articles" and start calling them blog posts.

eatcomics wrote:God damn. Even without dev videos you guys still make me want to sit down and get my ass to work. Sadly I'll be out of town all weekend. Fuck. Looks like I need to get something done tonight.
GET THE FUCK BACK TO WORK!
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby dandymcgee on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:25 pm

Falco Girgis wrote:edit: Renamed this forum and description to maybe help out. We need to stop calling them "articles" and start calling them blog posts.

Excellent change, perhaps this will get the point across a bit more bluntly and get people to reading what you've put so much goddamn effort into.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby DistortedLance on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:22 pm

Maybe the board's index should dedicate half the page to throw blog articles at the audience ^_^

The physics exploration seems interesting. Are you guys currently planning on having physics play a large role in the eventual game (physics-based puzzles, perhaps doing special things like dealing damage based on physics on a regular basis, etc.), or is it something that's being worked on just to have the option of using physics - or maybe to play a less imperative role in the game?

Regardless, this is all pretty awesome. I love seeing stuff like this :D
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby Falco Girgis on Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:39 pm

DistortedLance wrote:The physics exploration seems interesting. Are you guys currently planning on having physics play a large role in the eventual game (physics-based puzzles, perhaps doing special things like dealing damage based on physics on a regular basis, etc.), or is it something that's being worked on just to have the option of using physics - or maybe to play a less imperative role in the game?
Rigid body physics has been something that we planned to play a role in the actual gameplay since the inception of ES. This isn't something we're throwing in just to be fancy. If you look back to Adventures in Game Development Chapter 1, you can see that even then we had physics of some form running in the engine.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby eatcomics on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:22 am

Falco Girgis wrote:
DistortedLance wrote:The physics exploration seems interesting. Are you guys currently planning on having physics play a large role in the eventual game (physics-based puzzles, perhaps doing special things like dealing damage based on physics on a regular basis, etc.), or is it something that's being worked on just to have the option of using physics - or maybe to play a less imperative role in the game?
Rigid body physics has been something that we planned to play a role in the actual gameplay since the inception of ES. This isn't something we're throwing in just to be fancy. If you look back to Adventures in Game Development Chapter 1, you can see that even then we had physics of some form running in the engine.

Ah yes throwing the old penis around until it collided with the vagina. Those were the days boys.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby dr-snipe on Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:55 am

eatcomics wrote:
Falco Girgis wrote:
DistortedLance wrote:The physics exploration seems interesting. Are you guys currently planning on having physics play a large role in the eventual game (physics-based puzzles, perhaps doing special things like dealing damage based on physics on a regular basis, etc.), or is it something that's being worked on just to have the option of using physics - or maybe to play a less imperative role in the game?
Rigid body physics has been something that we planned to play a role in the actual gameplay since the inception of ES. This isn't something we're throwing in just to be fancy. If you look back to Adventures in Game Development Chapter 1, you can see that even then we had physics of some form running in the engine.

Ah yes throwing the old penis around until it collided with the vagina. Those were the days boys.


+1 That. Seeing those ghetto physics actuallly made me make one as well.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby Falco Girgis on Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:57 am

dr-snipe wrote:
eatcomics wrote:
Falco Girgis wrote:
DistortedLance wrote:The physics exploration seems interesting. Are you guys currently planning on having physics play a large role in the eventual game (physics-based puzzles, perhaps doing special things like dealing damage based on physics on a regular basis, etc.), or is it something that's being worked on just to have the option of using physics - or maybe to play a less imperative role in the game?
Rigid body physics has been something that we planned to play a role in the actual gameplay since the inception of ES. This isn't something we're throwing in just to be fancy. If you look back to Adventures in Game Development Chapter 1, you can see that even then we had physics of some form running in the engine.

Ah yes throwing the old penis around until it collided with the vagina. Those were the days boys.


+1 That. Seeing those ghetto physics actuallly made me make one as well.
The new engine puts those physics to absolute shame.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby dandymcgee on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:05 pm

Falco Girgis wrote:
dr-snipe wrote:+1 That. Seeing those ghetto physics actuallly made me make one as well.
The new engine puts those physics to absolute shame.

Prove it.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby MarauderIIC on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 pm

Blog wrote:Tyler is going to have to draw 20 little 16x16 icons for this field and the DropDown menu.
So the old game called Infantry that Sony Online Entertainment bought out years ago allowed you to actually turn on the collision overlay. It represented its collision geometry with the actual shapes that people collided against (e.g. each tile had a red square outlining it if you couldn't walk on it, had a red triangle outline on top of it if you couldn't walk on the the part covered by the triangle, people had circles on their feet, etc), so that might be a way to represent your collision geometry, as an overlay with transparent areas.

Since I know you have 'throw' physics... (you know how I don't really keep up with your blogs or videos much, so forgive if this is a question that's been answered) have you considered a two-layer approach for collision types? e.g. a lake or a fence or a cliff face might be part of the base layer but you would be able to put projectiles over it.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby Falco Girgis on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:45 pm

MarauderIIC wrote:
Blog wrote:Tyler is going to have to draw 20 little 16x16 icons for this field and the DropDown menu.
So the old game called Infantry that Sony Online Entertainment bought out years ago allowed you to actually turn on the collision overlay. It represented its collision geometry with the actual shapes that people collided against (e.g. each tile had a red square outlining it if you couldn't walk on it, had a red triangle outline on top of it if you couldn't walk on the the part covered by the triangle, people had circles on their feet, etc), so that might be a way to represent your collision geometry, as an overlay with transparent areas.
Sounds quite a bit like what we're already doing:
ImageThat's with the "combined collision layer" debug toggle turned on in the Engine. I'm working on something similar to toggle in ESTk.

When the player's collider hits another collider, we're rendering it as red in this mode to represent a collision.

MarauderIIC wrote:Since I know you have 'throw' physics... (you know how I don't really keep up with your blogs or videos much, so forgive if this is a question that's been answered) have you considered a two-layer approach for collision types? e.g. a lake or a fence or a cliff face might be part of the base layer but you would be able to put projectiles over it.
Hah, this gave me a bunch of trouble in the past too. I wound up making "throw" actually "kick" for that reason. It prevents us from having to factor any Z-resolution into it. It also makes it so much easier to avoid fucked up collision situations since you are exerting the force from the player's bottom half (solid portion) rather than from the upper half (which isn't solid and could already be within a solid region). I may or may not wind up keeping it like this... To me, this seems almost more desirable, especially if we want the transfer of velocity to play into the game... I imagine the player being able to dash and ram something like a soccer ball to exert a greater force than if he just walked into it. Seems more fun than just tossing it.
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Re: Elysian Physics Sandbox Part 1

Postby Falco Girgis on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Oooooh I see what happened here. Look at the ESTk screenshot in the blog post. The icons are for that tile collider dropdown for when you modify tile attributes within Selection View.

We're still going to have a toggle to render the actual region as an overlay in Sheet View and Map View.
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