ESTk Dreamcast Integration

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ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby dandymcgee on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:15 pm

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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby short on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:14 pm

Prompting me to "login" again, doesn't accept login password that I normally use to login to forum.

Looks like a promising tutorial though!
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Falco Girgis on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:50 pm

Well, we fucked this one up...

1) Yeah, it's prompting for a login

2) This isn't a tutorial. This is a blog update for ES. It should be under "Underlying Tech." ;)
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Falco Girgis on Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:13 pm

FIXED! WHOOO!
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby short on Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:23 pm

Still asking me to login again
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Falco Girgis on Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:27 pm

Fixed it. I had fixed it on the actual website, but I forgot to update the link pointing back to it from this forum post. It's for the best that you haven't seen it yet, because I just added a decent amount of content to the article that apparently didn't get saved last night...

Sorry for the bullshit, gents. We're new to this. Bear with us. :)
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby M_D_K on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:07 am

Upon much contemplation, I think calling arp should be left to the user as it only ever needs to be executed once per boot. Probably better to just tell people how to set it up so that the arp stuff happens on boot (it's pretty trivial to do). ARP is outside the scope of the Toolkit just as it's outside dc-tool's scope.

With sudo you get a 15 minute grace period per virtual terminal, so once that's run once the toolkit has passwordless access to sudo which could be problematic if it's highjacked (extremely unlikely but possible). It's also not very nice that you keep the password hanging around in RAM, that shit ain't kosher.

Generally speaking the toolkit shouldn't need admin at all (this may be harder to avoid on windows cause their privilege shit didn't exist for a very long time). If you can avoid it.

Also why is dc-tool being run as root? Last I checked it doesn't need to be.

(The above is really nitpicky for shit that may never happen and has a very small chance of happening)
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Falco Girgis on Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:46 am

FINALLY SOME GODDAMN DISCUSSION!

M_D_K wrote:Upon much contemplation, I think calling arp should be left to the user as it only ever needs to be executed once per boot. Probably better to just tell people how to set it up so that the arp stuff happens on boot (it's pretty trivial to do). ARP is outside the scope of the Toolkit just as it's outside dc-tool's scope.
When I was first considering tackling this task, I actually agreed with you. The bullshit of requiring administrative privileges just to do this made it almost not worth the hassle... but!

1) Do you really expect a pixel artist or level designer to ARP their own Dreamcast? Do you really expect them to know what ARP even is? I sure don't. I don't mean any offense to them either, because it's their job to draw shit and be creative, not understand the underlying network technicalities required to test their shit on the Dreamcast. My philosophy with the Toolkit has always been that it should be a one-stop, end-all, ultimate tool for developing ES. I want to hand this one executable to artists and have them able to create our worlds without any additional requirements... even if that means encapsulating other tools to do our dirty work.

2) If point #1 still doesn't fully convince you, this surely will:
M_D_K wrote:Also why is dc-tool being run as root? Last I checked it doesn't need to be.
Actually, on OSX and Linux, it DOES need to be. chroot requires sudo to work. So literally, we cannot use the -c flag without super user. So regardless of whether or not the Toolkit issues the ARP on the users' behalf, it will still require sudo to chroot. The only reason that the Windows build doesn't require this, is because I was the one who implemented chroot, and it's a simple, virtual, fake implementation.

So since I already had to require administrative privileges, I figured I may as well go the extra mile and ARP for the user. ARP-ing itself is extremely easy...
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Trask on Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:05 pm

M_D_K wrote:With sudo you get a 15 minute grace period per virtual terminal, so once that's run once the toolkit has passwordless access to sudo which could be problematic if it's highjacked (extremely unlikely but possible). It's also not very nice that you keep the password hanging around in RAM, that shit ain't kosher.


I'm by no means a *nix guru, so I'm just taking a stab at a possible consideration, so please verify/school me MDK... what if he adds this line to the end of the code, wouldn't it immediately clear the cached password?

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_engine->start(QString("sudo -k "));

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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Falco Girgis on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:49 am

Eh, even if that cleared the cached password from whatever terminal ESTk kicks off, we're still storing it in RAM in the widget... And the Unix/Linux security die-hards will always argue that somebody could retrieve that string from the Toolkit.

Although the OS is supposed to give the Toolkit its own virtual address space, so this isn't exactly likely or easy to pull off. There's basically going to be an endless battle back and forth over shit like this. I still argue that if somebody REALLY wanted to, they could get your sudo password without the Toolkit. They could always jack your keyboard driver and listen for input after a "sudo"...

If you are one of these security die-hards then feel free to invoke the Dreamcast by yourself without the Toolkit. Have fun. ;)
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby dandymcgee on Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:09 pm

This is one of the first really awesome features I remember being added to the toolkit. Unfortunately for me, I've never had a chance to use it personally.
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Albionremain on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:38 am

You know it is serious dev time when Falco dons his Pacman PJs! The progress you've made here is one hell of a step forward in getting the (invoke) engine and toolkit all back on the same page. Its been quite a while since I've seen ES running on anything besides PC directly as intended from the toolkit. Granted random demonstrations/testing on Falco's end usually sees other platforms but it does't quite count in my book if I still can't do it from the Toolkit. It looks like I need to get a VGA cable from my Dreamcast so I can participate in some testing!
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Falco Girgis on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:38 am

Hell yeah, dude. I'm so ready to not be the only person ever to test the DC build... especially considering we all have Dreamcasts. :lol:
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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby jeremywebcom on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:21 pm

Good work Marcel on the dialog box. Could you make it even easier by removing the need for people to know the format of the MAC address? It seems like the engine has enough information to create the MAC address correctly based on the chosen platform. So you could let people enter a MAC address in whatever format they prefer and just fix it for them. I imagine the algorithm would just scan for hex numbers and dump anything else until you found 12 hex numbers. Then just add the formatting as needed ( colon or dash ).

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Re: ESTk Dreamcast Integration

Postby Albionremain on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:53 pm

Jeremywebcom,I agree with your suggestion. Normally I'm the one bitching at Marcel to make things a bit 'user friendly'. He is a backend wizard, but when it comes to UI design or user interface he can be a bit bull headed. More often than not Falco and I have sat down with him and worked though a few aspects that may not be 'readily evident' to users on how he wants the work flow or input to be like.

At my job I rarely concern myself with the full MAC address of hardware, usually just the last 4-6 since the first half is manufacturer specific, but there are times that I do I encounter many different formats of MAC address. For example, Adtran routing equipment expects MACs to be in all caps with colons, while Asterisk prefers lowercase and doesn't care if you use colons or not. Being able to either copy/paste from terminal or command prompt or spit out your MAC from memory without the need for specific formatting would be nice.
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